Transcript:
Why are you becoming an Ambassador for ADHD UK?
Katie: I think Initially, we wanted to become an advocate for ADHD because of the experiences that that we felt as a couple and as a family as well. And I think it’s important to share our experiences with others so that they know that you know, what they might be going through or, you know, is, is completely normal and if other people experience what, what they’re experiencing. So I think it’s important to share. To share, everybody should share their experiences because they can all be different.
Matthew: I would want to be an advocate because I believe there are a lot of stereotypes around ADHD. Especially around the hyperactive type, which is commonly diagnosed. And I want people to know that it can present differently in all people. It’s not the same in everyone. I’m inattentive, so I don’t present as many of the hyperactive traits, and that’s one of the reasons I got a late diagnosis. So I think awareness is key. So I like to be part of sharing my experience.
Tell us about your daughter’s diagnosis journey.
Matthew: So with, with our daughter, we noticed very early on that she was struggling with a lot of kind of like anxieties and things, and we didn’t really understand it. It was before I even considered that I might have had ADHD as well at the time. So we were going to the school and saying, look, she’s struggling. We’re not really sure what’s going on. They kind of labeled us as I don’t know, like, problematic. Problematic parents, or something like we, we, we tried to get the help that she needed. But the school didn’t agree that there was an issue. They certainly didn’t write it in any of her reports. But then they would come back to us and say, Oh, she’s, she’s acting strange in class or she’s daydreaming and she’s, she’s going off task in her writing. She’s writing about other things when she should be sticking to one thing. And, this was before even knowing that she had. Even suspecting she might have ADHD. So, knowing what we know now we realize that it’s probably that she, she’s probably presenting a lot of women where they are primarily inattentive.
Katie: And it’s, it’s become more obvious now that she started secondary school. So she started year seven last September. And it’s definitely become more obvious since, you know, she has more homework, she needs to be more organized with her work and with her lessons. We have noticed it’s changed. It’s quite significant now really, and we’re still on this journey of trying to get support that she desperately needs in school, which is still unfortunately proving to be quite a task at the moment. And we’re going through the same with our youngest son as well. And so our youngest son, again, as Matt said before, we’ve noticed from an early age, so he’s just turned seven. And we noticed that he’s quite a hyperactive child. And whereas Abigail, our daughter, she’s more inattentive like, like Matt. Harry is more hyperactive and he’s got no sense of like, roads, danger, things like that. And he’s, he’s definitely showing signs and symptoms that we’re, we have concern about. It’s enough for us to be concerned that perhaps this might be disrupting his education. And when we approached school, which fortunately is in good school, and the head teacher has got a fantastic background in, in SEMS as well. And, he’s getting some support there, isn’t he? He’s confirmed that he is, he’s a timer and he’s quite poor. He, he tends to be more reflection, which is like, reflecting on actions.
Matthew: They kind of have a more of a reward system, which works quite well. Where they kind of positively like reinforcing, you know. He’s, he’s like goals for the day would be the same as someone else’s. So they kind of explained to us as instead of, you know, you’ve read this many pages today, it will be, you’ve managed to stay in your seat or, you know, they’re trying to reinforce his behaviour in the classroom, but rewarding him or which seems to be helping, which is quite a positive thing, I think.
Katie: And we have just, had a an assessment really. So the school had filled out some forms and the typical questionnaires that they send out, and they did say that he was disruptive and he loses concentration, he’s very fidgety, all the classic signs that you’d say are indicators to say he’s, he’s possibly got ADHD. We went along to the assessment with Harry and unfortunately the, the teach, because of the, the way that the questionnaires are set up, they didn’t say that it happens maybe all the time, and the teachers weren’t sort of.
Matthew: Although there are very detailed, kind of report, and we thought kind of back to what we were saying, because we know they agree what we’re saying, but the clinician felt like he wasn’t enough to diagnose him. So, we’ve had this same problem with Abigail because she’s not presenting as hyperactive so one of the things that they looked at in the school was they watched her in a lesson, and the questions were, is she getting a piracy? Is she hyperactive? Is she paying attention? And it was a lesson that she enjoys so they’re not going to get the same reaction from that lesson as they would say if it was maths that she struggles in. So because she’s not disruptive, she, I believe that she’s just got anxiety, which is usually, as far as I’m aware, can be a symptom of having ADHD in the first place. Yeah.
What would you like to tell people generally about your ADHD?
That it doesn’t only affect young boys. That the symptoms people associate with ADHD, such as a boy bouncing off the walls, it’s generally not true for women and girls. It’s much more subtle than that. And years of perfecting kind of the art of masking means it’s, it’s likely to stay that way. And it did stay that way for me. I’ve kind of grown up with low self-esteem, a view of myself in the mirror that others don’t really see. And as a child, I was very easily distracted in class by any external events or looking out the window. Although I drift off into a world of my own. So paying attention to the task at hand is, there’s always been my biggest challenge. As a young girl, I was a sporty one, the one climbing trees, the one riding my bike, making dens with the boys, just being really physical and not doing the typical kind of girls things that society expects, like crafting and colouring and drawing. I was and still am highly sensitive. I’ve always felt things really deeply in some of my few childhood memories of hiding behind the sofa when Black Beauty was on or being banned from watching Lassie as I just start crying and not be able to stop. However, this has translated in adulthood into into true empathy, being able to read the energy in a room and know exactly what’s going to happen before anybody’s even spoken a word. And finally, I’m a maverick. I love being different and often don’t want what other people want. So it’s important for me to be original and just not follow the crowd. That’s what I want to tell people about my ADHD.
The impact of ADHD and resultant increased risk of suicide is an important topic. Have you ever had suicidal thoughts?
Matthew: Yeah, I have, but I’ve got strong views on it as well at the same time because, there was somebody who I didn’t know them very well, but I knew I’d spoken to them, someone at school who committed suicide when we just left school. And kind of experiencing that and feeling like, although I didn’t really know them, it still affected me because I’d seen them around the same age as me. I was driving past the place where it happened everyday on the way to college, and it was just. Because I knew that I would, I would kind of unintentionally become a victim of that person’s you know, what, what happened to them. I wouldn’t want to do that to anybody else. Although I’ve had, I’ve had thoughts before, but I’d never carry it out because I’ve got a family and I know that it would impact them more than it would impact me. You know, my, I wouldn’t be worried about it anymore if I wasn’t here, but to them, it could change the way, you know, their, their outlook on life or whatever. So I wouldn’t want to be that burden on, on them. So it’s not something that I’d ever go through. I don’t think so.
What would you like to tell people generally about ADHD?
Matthew: With my daughter, she’s, she’s very much, she’s different at school. She’s very good at masking. So we’ve come to realize that she, she doesn’t talk to anybody about the things that she’s feeling unless, unless they’re asking. And then she’ll kind of you know, she might talk about some things, but she, she struggles to, to organize her things. She doesn’t, she still can’t tell the time and she’s like 12 years old because she, she doesn’t understand. So it’s like, she doesn’t, it’s not important. It’s kind of important to her, but not enough to learn it. So, she knows she goes off cues. So in the morning, if I, if Kate goes, oh, boys are going to go to school, she goes, she gets her shoes on, she goes out the door. You know, if we were to get up and go out early, she’d do the same because she doesn’t have any, she’s kind of disorganized in that sense. She doesn’t, homework. She’s got a fear of. So she’s got like a fear of, of getting detentions and things, hasn’t she? So yeah, she’ll spend she’ll come home from school, she’ll, she’ll watch TV and we’ll go, it’s bedtime and she’ll go, I’ll go do my own work. And then she’s on her homework till 11 o’clock at night, panicking that she hasn’t done it for the next day. And it’s those kinds of struggles that the school doesn’t see in the meltdowns when she comes home, she’s not coping.
Katie: It affects our friendships as well. It’s affecting us socially. And she’s, she’s, she’s very much a home girl, which is, which is, you know, that’s, that’s not an issue at all. But she does have a lot of friends that, wants to be around her and want to socialize with her and do things with her. And, and she’s just, she’s not that aware. So she’s, you know, she won’t go out to a friend’s house, for example. She won’t go and take part in activities at school, whether or not they interest her or not. She just, she doesn’t want to.
Matthew: When she’s home, she just doesn’t want to do it. She’s, she’s very creative. She’ll spend most of the time drawing or she’s just started crocheting and she just gets, she kind of focuses over it. So yeah, she’s she’s very she’s very creative. She’s always making something. She’s, she’s excelling in things like IT. So she’s, she’s really into coding. In fact, she’s doing really well at that, whether they’re using some kind of Microsoft app where they’re coding LEDs or something. And she’s getting, I think she got the top results on a test last week at school. But yeah, her attainment’s down in other subjects. So if she’s really interested in something, she excels at it. She’s determined. She’s determined, she’ll focus on it and nothing will stop her from doing that. If she’s interested, but it’s when she’s not interested, that’s when it becomes an issue. So, so yeah, we, we’re struggling, but again, she’s not, she can be hyperactive around shops. We’ve noticed that when she, she acts, she can be very different at home to how she’s presenting at school. And I believe that is because she’s masking it quite well. But from, for myself, I forgot what the question was.
Katie: What you wanted to tell people about ADHD.
What would you like to tell people generally about being a parent with ADHD?
Matthew: I would say don’t give up on them because it, it’s not you. It’s the system, it’s failing your kids. It’s not, you’re not failing them. You’re trying to do the best you can because you understand. For people who, who don’t really understand it, I would say that if you look at the research, you can see that there’s, there is a link between families. I don’t know how strong the research is, but I know that there’s, it’s been suggested that it’s in, if it’s in the family, it’s tends to be passed down so it can be hereditary. So, I, I always mentioned that because I think that’s important. I suspect my parents, or at least one of my parents may have it, and I know that their father probably had it as well, but I will never know that because they wouldn’t accept that as a diagnosis. So, I believe it comes from somewhere. And if it’s, if, if you’re a parent with it and it’s worth, if you start to see symptoms, your kids get it looked at, because they probably do have it more than likely. As far as, I suppose you’re better off kind of explaining the relationship side of things, because I was very much inattentive to emotion, and just like stepping over the rubbish on the way to work and things like that, like, you know, the bin needs emptying. So little things like that build up and I couldn’t see that until I was medicated. I couldn’t see what she was seeing. So my perspective was very much blurred by the reality that I thought was, you know, my perspective was what I thought the world was like. And, you know, when, when since I’ve been treated, my eyes have been open massively to the fact that things aren’t always as the same, and, you know, people have different perspectives on everything.
Kaite: Yeah, I, I think Matt was very much, I think Matt probably, you probably agree that you maybe felt nagged a lot. And there was definitely, from what I see now, I didn’t see at the time, but I definitely see that there was, there were, was a parent child dynamic between me and Matt. So, you know, I felt as though I had to keep on top of everything that, that he was doing. So, for instance, like finances. Everything, every aspect of childcare to do with the kids education, to do with school, everything I was on top of. I had to remind him so many times about different things. And even getting things like work interviews and things. So I definitely felt parent-child dynamic with Matt, but I also was aware that he felt nagged and I suppose, I suppose maybe he could have felt, I felt like I was controlling him and I’d get upset about that. But having that conversation with him at the time, he perhaps didn’t see that maybe. I’m not sure. But it was very much. We’ve been married now for 12 years this year, and we’ve been together for 14 years now. And as Matt had mentioned before, we ADHD just did not, wasn’t in our vocabulary like, in the, until he got a diagnosis. And, I think I can be honest and say that not long before he sought help and got a diagnosis, I did considered divorce, which was which was not nice at all because my parents were divorced. And it was something that I’d always said to Matt when we got married. I don’t want ever want that for us. And, you know, having children together as well and the impact that that has on the family. But I had, and it is really upset me and I had thought about that. Because I just didn’t know what else to do. Although I really love, love, love Matt, it was the way that I felt, I felt as though it was me. I definitely felt like the problem was me, and for his sake, as well as my own, I thought that we were just better off not being together with the, the arguments and as Matt had said, it was very much a one-sided argument. You can feel, you can feel isolated in your own home, especially if your children are the same. You can feel like you’re not cared for. You can feel like, you know, just your feelings aren’t validated. You don’t feel that way and you feel frustrated a lot.
What would you like to tell your employers about your ADHD?
Matthew: It’s difficult really because I started a new job and they’ve been quite supportive. I don’t quite understand what it is that I have, or they don’t really look into, they can definitely see the positives of, of what I can do. But again, I think it’s awareness for people who don’t understand ADHD and how it can affect things like progression, being impulsive with words because I’ve been very impulsive in a previous job before I was treated. I could be quite you know, abrupt and I can be very black and white as well sometimes, see people take offence. I’m probably not, I’m probably more controlled with my words now, I’m not as impulsive. But I still have the social aspect of it, which, you know, that could be, that could be the autism or it could be the ADHD. I’m not, it’s, it’s a bit of a crossover, but you know, I’m, I’m probably never going to be good on the phone. You know, talking to customers, I’m, I’m probably never going to be. And that, that for example, is, I can’t concentrate on what someone’s saying on the phone if there’s background noise or, you know, it still affects me even, even when I am medicated, I’m just more likely to answer the phone and not feel bothered by it now because I know that that’s probably one of my weaknesses. It’s probably not going to change because it’s not something I can control. Again, starting conversations and speaking to new people, it’s still an issue for me. But I think the positives of what I can do far outweigh those things that I can’t. So, it’s just awareness that ADHD isn’t just hyperactive young boys disrupting classrooms. It can be, you know, you could have a thousand thoughts going on in your head and no one else can see it. You know, I’ve no doubt I’ll probably mask in certain situations as well. So, when I need to be seen as being social or having to speak to people, I’m probably putting a lot more energy into that situation than someone who can just do it quite naturally. So yeah, it’s difficult. I don’t, I don’t have, I don’t have any kind of experience of being discriminated against, I suppose. And I think it’s just because I’m not disruptive and I get on with what I need to do. I can imagine that there are places that do discriminate still. And, and again, I think it is just awareness of you know, it’s not, it’s not behaviour that can be, can, it’s not behaviour that can always be controlled. So it’s, I mean, I still struggle to get my head around it. So it is a difficult subject, but I think that the more people understand that it’s not a weakness and that it’s actually a strength is probably, and the awareness of, of how it can affect people. That’s the, I think that’s kind of key to bringing more understanding, I suppose, in the workplace.
What would you like to tell your school about your ADHD?
Katie: I think that schools just need to be more aware that there are subtypes to ADHD. And whereas it’s easy to spot, boys that show, symptoms of ADHD, it’s, it’s not easy for girls. And I think that schools need to be more aware that there are girls that are struggling, and they need that they do need support, and there should be something in place that can help to support that because, you know, I do have a concern that some girls who present as the inattentive type will get older and, their anxieties will develop, into adulthood causing more problems in the future. That’s a really great concern of mine with my daughter, particularly that it’s quite heartbreaking to see her struggling. And we see her role, like, you know, like, like Matthew said previously, she’ll go to school and she, she would mask and she openly admits that she does that. But at the same time, she does have anxieties because she just doesn’t understand why. She, in her world, she doesn’t have many friends, she’s not doing well at school. There’s a lot of conversation with children at school about neurodiversity and some children would say, I’ve, I’ve got it, and they haven’t. And they obviously push their symptoms onto others. And then others will say, well, I don’t, I’m not like that, so I haven’t, I can’t have that. So, you know, when it’s, there needs to be more awareness for girls definitely. I’m, I’m very concerned about girls with ADHD.
Matthew: I, I’d say actually because I’ve thought about this quite a lot and yeah, I, I, I’m the same with with girls. It does worry me that there’s so many girls out there have gone through the education system or adults now who are struggling with stuff and that they can’t, they’ve never been picked up because they didn’t meet any of the criteria because of the way they present. But I also believe that they may also, I mean, we know that it’s predominantly, you know, it’s, it’s more, it’s more likely to be in girls from research that’s been done, but it still happens in boys as well. They will be missed as well as those, so maybe it’s more awareness for the inattentive type. And just being aware that girls do present differently and that, you know, for me, it’s been eye-opening seeing, you know, I, I wasn’t a girl growing up with inattentive ADHD. So for for Abby, she, she’s growing up and she’s going through things that I never had to go through as a man. And that will also contribute to, you know, her symptoms and, and, you know, I think that girls probably have it worse off. Because I think it’s they don’t get listened to as much. So, yeah.
Katie: I think, I think what we’d like to say schools is to listen, listen to parents and listen, you know, and just because they present different and differently at school doesn’t mean that they don’t present differently at home. And I think it’s just to just to listen to our concerns really. And to, to support us through that because we’ve, we’ve definitely felt, we definitely feel like sometimes we can’t be open about how we feel or what we want to do. Or what we’d like to see happen in school with, you know, we don’t sometimes as parents we don’t feel like we’ve got control over that. And, and all we’ve ever wanted for our children or any parent wants their children is just for them to be able to do their best, go to happy, feeling, go to school feeling happy and feeling confident. And whether or not that means I’m having a diagnosis or not, they still need to be able to you know, like I say, just anything that can support them in school, if they’re in a certain way is really important and really crucial.
Matthew: I would say one, one thing as well. For the, for education is awesome that we’ve been told before by, by schools is that, It’s not their responsibility to diagnose children and the doctor will say, you know, it’s up to the school to diagnose. You know, we’ve had that we’ve gone back and forth from the GP to the school so many times. And they need to understand that they’re both a very important part of the process because one without the other, will result in no diagnosis. So the school needs to support the parents and needs to listen to the concerns. And, and they need to understand that it might not be their responsibility to do the, to, to diagnose that they are a big part of the criteria for diagnosis. So them being a different care setting is, is part of the, you need two that agree to get a diagnosis. If, if only, if you’ve only got one, you can’t get a diagnosis as, as far as I’m aware. That’s what, what it is at the moment, so.
What would you like to tell the NHS about your ADHD?
Matthew: That’s an interesting question, I suppose, I never really thought. In terms of some of my initial thoughts, when someone suggested that I’ll go, I mean, it was off the NHS website as well. So, you know, the NHS is putting out kind of decent information. I don’t think that’s the issue. But when you go to GP, when you go to GP, and they then say, Oh, I don’t think that’s that it’s that because I’m like that, you know, they’re comparing themselves to you, but they’re not you. They haven’t got your life experience, you know. Sorry, I’ve got the cat jumping on me. Sorry. They haven’t got, they shouldn’t be, I suppose they shouldn’t be diagnosing something they don’t fully understand. They should be forwarding you on to the right people who can do that. And whether that’s funding or not, I don’t know, but funding’s been mentioned a few times with the school and with the GP, and that they, they need a good enough reason to put your case forward for referral. But in terms of my current treatment, the people that I’m with now have been a good when you can get in, when you can get an appointment, that’s fine. But sometimes, And I don’t, I don’t think that they’re, I don’t think it’s because they’re not trying because a lot of them might have the diagnosis themselves, I’m assuming. A lot of people go into that kind of profession because they want to help. So I don’t think the people who are being referred to are the issue. I think that the I think it would be the, maybe the underfunding in that area where they’re overwhelmed with referrals and they can’t get through them quick enough so the queues are massive. I’ve, I’ve been on two year waiting list for the autism one and they referred, they, I’m with the people who would be doing that appointment and they said that they have got a backlog of people coming in with ADHD and they want to deal with those diagnoses first. And then they’ll go on to the autism diagnosis second.
Katie: I think as well when, when you went to diagnosis, I think he was told at the end of the assessment that. Yes, he’s got ADHD and he’s going to attend to you. But then it was we’ll schedule an appointment with a nurse so that you can discuss medication. And I think that I know that on the NHS website they do. There’s other forms of treatment to go to work alongside of medication. So, you know, like therapy as well. And I think that it was a big thing to be told. Yes, you’ve got ADHD, and then just to be left just to take the medication and that’s it. And you know, Matt’s dealt with it so well, and he’s still learning about himself, and you know, I think that something else should be offered alongside of it for support, and whether that’s just talking through it, or, you know, Matt has some feelings now where he’s like, I’m not sure whether the feelings that I’m experiencing are because my medication might not be working, and I need to increase my dosage, or whether it’s, you know, it’s. I think it’s important for Matt to be able to have access to someone to talk to, and if he needs to, and so that should definitely be offered alongside. And in terms of the children are just my personal view on it is that it’s it seems to be very difficult for children, and we will know that adults coming forward now. And we’ve had some adults approach us and go, you know, and our children are about to go through an assessment but you know thinking about I’m like that. And it’s like, you know, there’s there’s more and more adults coming forward as well as children, Like Max just said, I think that they’re quite overwhelmed moment but my fear is that in schools, they’re sort of just pushing it off to the side a little bit. And I don’t think, my personal opinion, I don’t think they the checklists are suitable for all subtypes, that they’re just not, it’s just not, you know, once one’s been completed, it’s unlikely to be complete again. So, you know, it might not be complete again until adulthood, but then it’s on record that it’s not, it’s not been diagnosed. So I don’t think that, I think more suitable type of criteria should be met and over a period of time, not just one time they do a questionnaire, it should be monitored and, a complete assessment made really, shouldn’t it?
If you could have a magic wand, would you entirely remove your ADHD?
Katie: I think in terms of, I’ll, I’ll start with the relationship, sorry a bit. I, I wouldn’t want to wave a magic wand and just completely remove Matt’s ADHD,I wouldn’t. And there’s been no time where I’ve ever thought that either because Matt wouldn’t be who he is, otherwise it would just change. I mean, I do some, I say to Matt now, I say, you don’t have to take your medication every day. You could have like a break at the weekends and that’s absolutely fine. But then I’ve, I understand that if Matt, you know, Matt would want to take it because he’s busy that weekend or he’s got something planned that he wants to follow through with. And so I understand that side of it, but I want Matt to know that, you know, it’s completely okay for him not to do that when he’s around, when he’s at home and with his family. But now there’s there’s absolutely nothing I’d change about Matt and Matt is an incredibly supportive husband, above all else. And you know, anything that I wanted to do, he supported me, and I’m lucky enough that, I can go to university and I can study. And, my, the reason I’m doing that is for, for us and for our family. And we want to help other families together. And, we work with each other and we bounce off each other and you know, that wouldn’t be possible unless maths has allowed me to do that. And he’s a great dad, and I can see that because of him being diagnosed and the struggles and the difficulties that he’s been through. He doesn’t want that for his children, and I can see that he’s desperatelrying ty to get all the support that he can for them. And I’m so proud of him for that. And, you know, seeing Matt where he is today from where he was before, he’s completely different. You know, he’s, he’s, he’s got he’s really happy in the job that he does. He does really well. His employers are really happy with him. He’s so much more invested in our family. And, you know, I’m massively, massively proud of him for what he’s achieved and what he’s done. But there’s absolutely nothing I’d change, nothing at all, about him. If I could magic it away, I wouldn’t.
Matthew: So tell the truth. No, for the kids I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t want, I wouldn’t want them to be any different. I think that the way Abby is, isn’t a problem for us. We’re not, we’re not worried in terms of, you know, Abby’s who she is, and our material, the way they are. And we’re happy with, with who they are and how they are. It’s just that we, I think we wish more that they weren’t expected to fit in. Like, you know, their, their struggles are because the system wants them to be neurotypical or they want them to act like a typical person would, and they can’t, and that’s not their fault. So I think for me, it’s more about, again, it’s awareness and it’s, it’s guiding them through life. Not feeling like they have to be different for somebody else because it makes someone else uncomfortable. Because I’ve experienced it from the inside where I’ve, where I’ve felt very uncomfortable through. Much of my childhood and early adulthood, being who I am and not understanding who I was or why I was and then getting to a point, kind of get having that realization and going, I am just trying to fit. I mean, I’m the only reason I’m medicated really so as I fit in with the way society wants me to be, you know, like, it’s kind of weird when you say that, but that’s what it is. So, you know and for myself. I regret more that I didn’t know about it. And so I wouldn’t wave the magic wand and remove it because that’s me. I, I wouldn’t change anything. The only thing I wished for is that I knew about it before and I could talk about it with you know, even family members aren’t around anymore, I wish that I could have had a conversation with them and said, have you ever felt like that, you know, and just had that kind of opportunity when I was younger to go to get an understanding from them. So as I can understand how far back it goes and what struggles they’ve had and easy. You know, there, there’s, there’s questions left unanswered when you become an adult and you kind of have to grieve for that when you get your diagnosis because you’re not gonna get some of those answers. So, yeah, it’s very strange.
Katie: You’ve kind of said that you want to break the cycle now with with our family.
Matthew: Right, cycle. And so there’s like a, there’s, there’s somewhere where we can go back to and go, oh yeah, he is in the family, and, and it is a thing. We understand.
Katie: We understand. Yeah, you can be open, you know, we want our children to be as open as they can be with us. So if they’ve got any struggles or difficulties or they feel a certain way. We want it to be a safe place where they can open up to us, and that it’s, we understand, you know, so, whereas perhaps both of us might not have been in an environment where we felt like we could openly talk about our feelings. We don’t want that for our children at all. And, we want them to be able to know that we’re here for them and we do understand. And from both perspectives as well. So, you know, it’s the wider future you look at isn’t it as well. So, you know, you look at them having future relationships, maybe, and if they experience problems like maybe we have, or they felt like perhaps I have or they felt like Matt has, and we’ve got that experience now that we can share with them and help them with, so when you say like breaking the cycle, I think, you know, that’s, that’s what we mean. But and that’s really important, isn’t it?
Matthew: Yeah.
Tell us about one of your favourite ADHD strategies.
Katie: Communication is obviously the biggest part because, if we have a disagreement about something, then he’s got his, that goes for all couples, but where it becomes a bit of a problem is where maybe I want Matt to act on something and he’s just not doing it. And that goes, that’s more really a problem on my part because I’m not communicating clearly enough what we should be doing together to, to put, you know, so if so if we’re going out, for instance, or we’re going we’re going on holiday and I’ve got my idea about how I want that morning to go before we leave and Matt’s got his idea, but sometimes the communication breaks down when I’m starting to go, Oh, but you’ve not done this and you’ve not done that. But then it’s me. It’s more me not turning being clearly clear enough about how we should be organizing that day. Sometimes we’ve we’ve got perhaps small queues, I think we may be where I will ask you and say, are you comfortable with this? So if we need to speak on the telephone, and Matt’s not comfortable talking on the phone, then I may say to him, we need to do this, but would you like me to do it or are you happy to do it? So it’s not just I don’t want to take over anymore. I don’t want to take over everything all the time. I want to ask, you know, if it’s comfortable and if it’s not comfortable, that’s fine.
Matthew: Something that we’ve kind of realized recently it was the, so if it’s the end of the day, rather than the beginning of the day, I’m better in the mornings than I am at night. And obviously if I’ve been busy, my brain tends to feel like it’s a bit zapped. So I’ve got nothing left to kind of like mentally, I can’t process any more information. So it might be just as simple as going to a chip shop and place an order and I’m sitting in the car and it’s always been me who’s gone in, but I’m feeling mentally like I can’t cope with this situation right now. So you know, usually medications wearing off by that time as well. Kate will now go, Oh, I’ll go in because she’s kind of spotted maybe the cues that I’ll forget things that I’ll forget someone’s order or where is she’ll go in and it’s not a problem for her. And that’s how when we go out as well socially you understand that don’t you? I’m extremely uncomfortable in that situation. We went to a birthday party recently and I was quiet. Although I knew the people who were on the table with us, I felt comfortable with them. Conversation wasn’t easy and I felt very awkward, but she becomes the person who kind of takes over the conversation. So as I’m feeling a little bit more at ease.
Katie: I think that in previous workplaces, not where he’s at now, but previous workplaces that he’s been to come home and shared maybe a concern about a conversation that might have taken place as a group or independently with Matt and he’s relayed the conversation back to me and his, his version, his like perception of that. The context of the conversation might have been differently to mine. So it’s just offering a different sort of perspective and saying, you know, if he was quite upset about his situation, it’s well, have you perhaps looked at it from this angle, this point of view. And you’ve started to do a lot of reflection.
Matthew: Yeah, I reflect a lot on situations.
Katie: So he will sort of come back and he’ll, he’ll do that now. And I think that’s, that’s working quite well isn’t it? But yeah, we’re it’s, it’s, it’s mainly, it’s mainly communication. And it’s, it’s usually just with like small disagreements. I say reflection, communication, and, an awareness of maybe strengths and I don’t like to call them weaknesses, but they’re definitely things that I don’t do as well at. So I would say just, so that’s pretty self-awareness as well. So you’ve got self-awareness, communication and reflection is very important.
Matthew: It’s, it’s, it’s great really, because it’s, it’s, it’s more like I said earlier, but with more involved now. So now that dynamic has shifted. And we are a partnership now and it’s not a parent-child dynamic anymore. He’s got his responsibilities, I’ve got mine. And, you know, we’re working really well like that together now. And that’s, that’s something that we never had before. That is just fell into place and it’s working incredibly well now which is, which is great.
What is the worst thing that has happened to you as a result of ADHD?
Katie: The worst thing for me, that’s happened is that I was, I was about to leave Matt. Yeah, I was about to leave Matt to the point where I’d locked him to divorce and I wasn’t going to change my mind. There’s been, there’s been a few occasions over the years where I’ve asked him to leave. And, he has left for a short while and then of course because we didn’t know he had ADHD, me trying to have a conversation in a more controlled way, so where I’m not upset anymore or as upset as I was, he, he wasn’t invested in that conversation because he just didn’t know how to be. He was avoiding it completely, which made things worse in some ways and sort of made it quite clear to me, okay, this can’t keep happening and this is obviously what he wants, otherwise he’d be reacting a different way. And that was very much the theme in our relationship for quite a number of years, really. But yeah, that’s the worst thing and I think that I’ve got a regret now because I have said things to Matt in the past that are not very nice and you know, I’ve had these arguments with him. I have said that he doesn’t do enough and perhaps now that on occasions he’s not felt good enough. And because one of the whole reasons he started to investigate was because he thought what’s going on, you know, she’s not happy and something’s not right. And, and I do regret that and I’ll, I’ll regret that perhaps for the rest of my life now but, I’m glad that Matt, did what he did, because things would be a lot different now, and not just for him or for me, but for our children, and that’s heartbreaking to think that it was so close to everything just completely ending. Where we are today is not where we were then. It’s, we’re really happy now together and, and you know, that’s, that’s the most upsetting and most challenging thing that’s come out of that for me, personally.
Matthew: My biggest regret and I’ve talked about a lot I think is, I don’t know if I do, but I, for me personally, is maybe the years I’ve missed out on being present as a parent. So obviously Kate, Kate was talking about our relationship, which I do regret. things that happened, but I don’t think that we could have changed that because of not knowing. So obviously I regret that, but I think things would have been very different if I’d have known, but I do regret not knowing earlier because, although I couldn’t control that, there’s been times I look back and I think the times when the kids have come up to me and spoke to me and I haven’t heard them. And I think that probably that’s, that’s probably going to affect our oldest more than the other two. But for instance, I left work at the time because Kate was working. It was only for a short time, but I would watch our eldest now. And I’d keep her in a bouncer and I’d be bouncing her and doing whatever I could. So I could hyper-focus on playing video games or, you know, instead of being attentive, I could have gone out with her and done things with her. And I miss that time because I was too distracted by everything else that was going on around me. So, that’s one of my biggest regrets and that’s why, and, and there’s, there’s things like I lost all of my grandparents before they knew that I had anything. So I was very close to my grandmother and she died during COVID. She didn’t know about my diagnosis. And, I spent a lot of time with her as a child and she seemed to understand. Me, I was like kind of a favourite, I suppose, but she she had a lot of time for me, but I didn’t have much time for as an adult when, when I, when it was my responsibility to go see her. I kind of stopped because she wasn’t on my list of things or places to be, or, you know, like it wasn’t in my, if it was now, it would be different, I’d probably be there. You know, I’ll be taking the kids around and they’ll be building those relationships, but they’re the things that I can’t get back. And there is a result of a late diagnosis. So, I got like, I lost both, I lost all my grandparents during COVID, you know, apart from my, you know, 18 months and I got diagnosed after the, after the past during lockdown and so. For me, I wish I kind of, I wish I could get that tone back, but I’ll never get that back, so.
What is the best thing that has happened to you because of ADHD?
Matthew: For me for me personally, so, I, I started trialling like the, the medication that you can get put on, it’s kind of like the first one to put you on, and that failed. So I didn’t really have a, I knew what it was like, it gave me that feeling of, this is what it’s like to be normal. I could focus on one thing. I could, you know it was just my mind was clear, you know, and when that failed, I’d like this kind of fog again, like you get like a, it comes back 10 times as worse because you realize what your ADHD actually is like when you’re not, not on it. So I started a new one, not long after. And since being on that one I’ve been on top of all the finances, which wasn’t before. So all my bills go out on time. If I miss a bill, I’ve not got a problem picking up the phone and dealing with it because that was something I used to avoid situations. I wasn’t so impulsive that I’d go and spend loads of money, but I would spend money and then you know, if there was a missed payment, I wouldn’t chase it up. So I get in debt that way through just ignoring lots of little things. So, so I’ve managed to go back on top of my finances. I kind of come to realize my worth in my employment. So the place that I was at, I, you know, I said, Oh, I think I’m probably worth more than. I was, I was on a very basic wage and I was like, I’m doing quite a lot of stuff is I know where I can, may progress or they, they weren’t interested. So I, I went out, put myself out there and I managed to increase our income and I managed to get a better job because of, it was the first job that I’d actually applied for myself. And, I went to the interview and I’m still there. So, like, you know, like, I decorated the boys’ room, you know, I stripped it bare. And I just went, I do a lot more things now than I did before. Whereas before it was starting a lot of things and never finishing them. So for me since I’ve been treated and understand it, I’ve been able to progress how maybe I felt I should have been able to progress before as an adult. So that’s positive in that is that it’s kind of the whole package of what I’m doing now, I’m more involved in the kids school, so I haven’t got a problem phoning up the school and saying, I’m not happy with this. Can you sort it out? I’ll go and, whereas before I’d just ignore it, wouldn’t I? I’d be like, oh, I’ll just get on with it, you know? So, I’m more present. I think that’s the, the thing, I’m more self-aware and more present than I was before. So that’s a, that’s a massive positive for me. And I do feel that it’s, it’s strengthened our relationship because we, we worked together well before, even through the difficult times we were always kind of, we kind of, I think it’s because the trust that we had in each other. We kind of understood each other in that sense that we knew our capabilities, I suppose. We’ve always been well. We’ve always done well working together, but now that’s kind of increased because now I’m more focused and she understands what was, what the issue was before. So, yes, it’s all positive.
Katie: Yeah, it’s definitely, it’s definitely the best thing to come out of it because Matt, as I say, is, it’s our relationship is definitely better than it ever was before, which is, which is funny, really, because when you start off on that journey and you can’t sort of going back to when I was crying that time and sort of thinking, do I stay or do I go, and it was, it was that sort of it, it’s it’s just come to where we are now it’s just so much better. And, you know, like I say, matters is much more involved in the family, and we’re going back to how we perhaps first started now relationship. Where it perhaps wasn’t as obvious, maybe, would you say, because you were hyper-focused on her a bit, I think you realise that now. So, like, you know, things like you know, he doesn’t forget Valentine’s Day or birthdays, and he’ll go above and beyond now. And like you said, there are still challenges that we face, but at least we’re facing them together now, which is the difference, whereas it wasn’t before. And I don’t feel lonely anymore. And, that’s definitely the best thing. And I think also what’s nice that comes out of it is that like seeing Matt’s relationship with Abby and seeing his relationship with the children and our relationship as a family. You know, we have these. times where we’ll have game nights, or we’ll go out and spend a lot of time together. We’re like we love going to the Lake Districts and our walking holidays and spending time together. And it’s just, it’s just lovely. It’s even though we’re all different, it’s just lovely. And, you know, it’s, it’s just changed for the better, really. I think that’s what I’d say, considering that, considering what we’ve believed. You know, we’ve heard that the divorce rate is quite high for ADHD and non-ADHD marriages. We’re we’re determined, absolutely.